End of the nonstops to LAX & EWR on the A345

[FN-GM]

Wouldn't it be foolish to buy a 77L new from Boeing just to tide over the time until 777X launch? Smarter to either lease (if even available) or buy the dirt cheap ex-AI airframes (unless all have been purchased).

Who says they are going to buy the 777X? The press articles are all speculation.

[shikhargpt]

well well well look which aircraft is in the news today

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...g777-jets.html

never too late to change one's mind i suppose

Wouldn't it be foolish to buy a 77L new from Boeing just to tide over the time until 777X launch? Smarter to either lease (if even available) or buy the dirt cheap ex-AI airframes (unless all have been purchased).

[saobangpo]

777-200LR can do it i think.

well well well look which aircraft is in the news today

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...g777-jets.html

never too late to change one's mind i suppose

[FSJZ]

I think Vistara's aim is to fly abroad, especially in the west. India is a big market, and if they can do it, they can gain customers who are currently travelling via Dubai and Abu Dubai to the express service operated by Vistara.

Also please note UK will need only 12 - 18 months to prepare for planes to fly to Europe. I think SQ's A330 or B772ER could be put into use by doing reconfiguration. So you can see SIA group is also trying to set up other companies to dispose their older planes whilst they are trying to reduce their fleet age significantly once they have acquired A350XWB.

Interesting read. Didn't know about this 5/20 rule. Thanks for clarifying!

[Metropolitan Airlines]

Yes as shikhargpt said, I don't think Vistara is particularly interested in going long haul at the moment, instead focusing on short haul domestic routes in India. Perhaps in the future.

Have a look at this article:

Vistara looks at overseas flight
TNN | Feb 23, 2015, 02.32AM IST

Vistara-plane
The airline is eyeing long-haul flights to the west - US and Europe.

GOA/NEW DELHI: With Tata Sons and Singapore Airlines as its parents, less than two-month-old Vistara has drawn up ambitious overseas network plans to be ready for the impending change in rules for Indian carriers to fly abroad. Termed "Plan B", the airline is eyeing long-haul flights to the west - US and Europe - when the government abolishes the current rule that a local airline must be five-year old and have a fleet of 20 planes to fly overseas.

Its plans go way beyond flying to just nearby countries where single aisle planes like its fleet of Airbus A-320s or the Boeing 737 can operate to. This is the first time after Air India that an India-registered airline has plans for long-haul international flights during the launch phase of overseas flights. "Almost 70% of India's outbound traffic is west-bound. US will be interesting for us, especially routes like New York and Washington. America has Open Sky with India. Once 5/20 goes and the US Federal Aviation Administration upgrades the Indian directorate general of civil aviation, we will like to go there. Many cities in Europe will also be interesting for us. Indian carriers are underutilizing their flying rights for overseas destinations. Why not open up flying abroad for them (without having restriction like 5/20)?" Giam Ming Toh, Vistara's chief commercial officer, told TOI. He said organizing wide-body aircraft operations required for long-haul flights like those to US or Europe will require 12 to 18 months after being allowed to fly abroad.

Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/46336938.cms

I think Vistara's aim is to fly abroad, especially in the west. India is a big market, and if they can do it, they can gain customers who are currently travelling via Dubai and Abu Dubai to the express service operated by Vistara.

Also please note UK will need only 12 - 18 months to prepare for planes to fly to Europe. I think SQ's A330 or B772ER could be put into use by doing reconfiguration. So you can see SIA group is also trying to set up other companies to dispose their older planes whilst they are trying to reduce their fleet age significantly once they have acquired A350XWB.

[floppy]

Yes as shikhargpt said, I don't think Vistara is particularly interested in going long haul at the moment, instead focusing on short haul domestic routes in India. Perhaps in the future.

Vistara is unable to go international due to the India's government silly ruling, rather than the airline's ambition.

[FSJZ]

SIA is setting up a new venture in India called Vistara, and one day they will launch long haul routes to India in an attempt to grab customers away from ME3 to a more direct route.

Yes as shikhargpt said, I don't think Vistara is particularly interested in going long haul at the moment, instead focusing on short haul domestic routes in India. Perhaps in the future.

[shikhargpt]

...SIA is setting up a new venture in India called Vistara...

Already set up haha!

And what's your source for Vistara going long haul, and competing with the ME3?

[Metropolitan Airlines]

Yes, the economics of the A350 will allow SIA to use the aircraft to open up some new long-haul routes which otherwise might not have been commercially viable with the existing fleet. It will nonetheless remain a challenge for SIA to regain market share lost to the ME3 and other carriers. SQ will never have a European network as comprehensive as those of Gulf carriers, or a U.S. network as admirable as CX, simply due to the geographic disadvantage of SIN, which is a problem new planes cannot solve. Instead, it's likely that their expansion will remain focused on building upon their solid regional presence and capitalizing on the new traffic flows in and around Asia, leaving the competitive kangaroo route and the Americas to EK and partner airlines.

True, but remember that SIA is an airline, and when you are looking at the entire SIA group, they are doing their best to regain the market share lost by ME3 and North East Asian airlines who have better access to Americas.

SIA is setting up a new venture in India called Vistara, and one day they will launch long haul routes to India in an attempt to grab customers away from ME3 to a more direct route.

On the other hand, they are considering to invest in Hong Kong Airlines or Jeju Air, which if successful, will allow the SIA portfolio to have similar access to Americas and China as another airline in Hong Kong does.

If these plans are successful, then what SIA's plan to expand its regional network in SE Asia and Hong Kong makes sense, because it can use its scissor hub network in India and North East Asia to compensate for the losses it has made.

[ek&sq]

I think SIA already has the 77W on routes which warrant such an aircraft and is waiting for a plane with better operating economics to open new routes. This will come in the form of A350s, which is said to be a 'game-changer' for SIA.

Yes, the economics of the A350 will allow SIA to use the aircraft to open up some new long-haul routes which otherwise might not have been commercially viable with the existing fleet. It will nonetheless remain a challenge for SIA to regain market share lost to the ME3 and other carriers. SQ will never have a European network as comprehensive as those of Gulf carriers, or a U.S. network as admirable as CX, simply due to the geographic disadvantage of SIN, which is a problem new planes cannot solve. Instead, it's likely that their expansion will remain focused on building upon their solid regional presence and capitalizing on the new traffic flows in and around Asia, leaving the competitive kangaroo route and the Americas to EK and partner airlines.

[FSJZ]

The other main and important thing is for SIA and the current CEO to seriously look at opening new routes/destinations as SIA have not had a new destination for the past 5 years; and its current fleet renewal is just that - ie in almost a one for one plane swap and the total number of the planes will be the same. Without new routes and new destinations, SIA will not be able to expand and in some ways even going down. Even our nearest competitor Cathay Pacific have opened up 4 to 5 new routes in the past 2 years and will add more this year. Of course Emirates have been expanding and opening up new routes to the tune of 5 to 6 new cities per year. SIA cites that it doesn't have the new aircrafts to open up new routes - but then again we must note that Emirates and Cathay are expanding using their existing fleet of mostly 77Ws.

I don't think SQ is particularly keen on opening up new routes, ever since the SIA Group profits took a plunge from $2 billion back in FY2008 to a meagre $368 million in FY2015. More focused on perfecting what it is currently doing (increase flight frequencies where there is demand, introducing PY) before taking a gamble and launching new routes.

[Jumbojet Lover]

Snap Up a couple of 77L from say air India who don't know what the hell to do with these birds. A few of those were snapped up by Etihad and deployed on Abu Dhabi- lax route & supposedly at really low prices

It would be a cold day in hell before SQ would take 2nd-hand aircraft from Air India.

The most important consideration is that SIA will be able to make a generally healthy profit on these routes and not only just for about breakeven as it involves the very high of buying just a small number of new planes which can do the distance just for these 2 routings.
...
SIA cites that it doesn't have the new aircrafts to open up new routes - but then again we must note that Emirates and Cathay are expanding using their existing fleet of mostly 77Ws.

I think SIA already has the 77W on routes which warrant such an aircraft and is waiting for a plane with better operating economics to open new routes. This will come in the form of A350s, which is said to be a 'game-changer' for SIA.

[flyguy]

The most important consideration is that SIA will be able to make a generally healthy profit on these routes and not only just for about breakeven as it involves the very high of buying just a small number of new planes which can do the distance just for these 2 routings.
The other main and important thing is for SIA and the current CEO to seriously look at opening new routes/destinations as SIA have not had a new destination for the past 5 years; and its current fleet renewal is just that - ie in almost a one for one plane swap and the total number of the planes will be the same. Without new routes and new destinations, SIA will not be able to expand and in some ways even going down. Even our nearest competitor Cathay Pacific have opened up 4 to 5 new routes in the past 2 years and will add more this year. Of course Emirates have been expanding and opening up new routes to the tune of 5 to 6 new cities per year. SIA cites that it doesn't have the new aircrafts to open up new routes - but then again we must note that Emirates and Cathay are expanding using their existing fleet of mostly 77Ws.

[hviswanathan]

I hope Boeing jumps on this and offers SQ a good deal for the 777-8X. There really isn't another option available. Too late for the 777-200LR now, and Airbus doesn't really have anything to offer to SQ. No news on the supposed A350-900R.

Snap Up a couple of 77L from say air India who don't know what the hell to do with these birds. A few of those were snapped up by Etihad and deployed on Abu Dhabi- lax route & supposedly at really low prices

[9V-SIA]

SQ's timing with the nonstop services has been very unlucky.

At introduction, A345 had business and premium economy class.

The inclusion of an economy class product meant it could fly regional routes when not flying ULH to LAX and EWR. Remember SIN-CGK on A345?

They converted the planes to all business class because demand exceeded supply.

After conversion to all business class, GFC of 2008. Business demand goes poooff.

In addition, planes could not fly regional routes because no economy class. Fuel prices go up.

Then after they sell off the planes, fuel prices plunge.

C'est la vie but I really hope they bring it back.... with an economy section for flexible deployment.