BA the latest to 'downgrade' BKK

[MAN Flyer]

They are dropping F with a switch from 744 to three class 777 from northern winter schedule. Flight also moves from T3 to T5 at LHR and timings switched to give a day time flight on the return.

BA009 LHRBKK 1505 0920*
BA010 BKKLHR 1055 1655

[KeithMEL]

I suspect the decision may also be influenced by the termination of the QF-BA JSA which would have resulted in a considerable loss of interline volumes on BA services to former JSA ports. The continuation of codeshare arrangements with QF on long haul routes to/via Asia (I don't see any QF*BA flights on long haul services soid on qantas.com - though they may still be available for sale through TAs) also appears to be in doubt especially with the commencement of a BA/CX codeshare agreement to Australian ports via HKG. The retiming probably provides a more sensible timing for a standalone service to BKK whereas previously the BKK schedule would have been optimised for an onward connection to SYD.

[MAN Flyer]

I suspect the decision may also be influenced by the termination of the QF-BA JSA which would have resulted in a considerable loss of interline volumes on BA services to former JSA ports.

I would have thought the amount of pax flying BA to BKK to connect with a QF flight would have been very small. Unlike Changi which was a QF hub I thought the only QF flight to BKK was SYD ?. And BA's own BKK flight used to carry on to SYD anyway a while ago. A mate of mine who used to fly to SYD every 6 weeks or so used to fly out via BKK and back via SIN as he preferred the second leg each way to be the longest to maximise the chance of getting a decent sleep. BKK-SYD is preferable to to SIN-SYD with the extra couple of hours flying time.

The continuation of codeshare arrangements with QF on long haul routes to/via Asia (I don't see any QF*BA flights on long haul services soid on qantas.com - though they may still be available for sale through TAs) also appears to be in doubt especially with the commencement of a BA/CX codeshare agreement to Australian ports via HKG.

Absolutely. BA are said to be fuming with QF over the EK tie up and have made it quite clear they'll do their own thing now. Hence the CX tie up, flights moving from T3 to T5 etc.

[scooby5]

You think they are making preparations for KUL being more important too when MAS is integrated?

They don't need so many hubs.

[KeithMEL]

I would have thought the amount of pax flying BA to BKK to connect with a QF flight would have been very small.

It was one of the key hubs for QF/BA JSA itineraries after SIN and maybe HKG. When BA flew to SYD via BKK (and QF the same in reverse), there was a fair amount of wing tip flying between QF and BA as the schedule was optimised for connections and to make sense for pax traveling between LHR and SYD. This schedule was retained when both airlines terminated their flights at BKK and interlined to the other for onward traffic. which would have probably boosted yields than if they operated all the way to LHR or SYD. The termination of the JSA means an end to revenue apportioning, joint dealing and commercial metal neutrality so the revenue implications of the loss of interline traffic arising from the end of the JSA are not insignificant even for somewhere like BKK without a critical mass of O&D yield in its own right, albeit a 'smaller' hub than somewhere like SIN or HKG.

Even if the codeshare agreement had continued, on a 'regular' codeshare agreement without ATI, both airlines are still technically competing to sell seats on each other's metal. There can't be any dialogue or engagement in joint pricing, dealing or marketing initiatives.

Of course the lower yield premiums to BKK would have hastened the downgrade but I'd also suggest that the JSA was a factor in keeping BKK going as a 4 class route for so long.

[milehighj]

Well the switch to the daytime flight is a useful secondary option for those of us who do rather like and fly BA these days.

[SQflyergirl]

I know a BA 777 captain who's delighted

[kt74]

I know a BA 777 captain who's delighted

...and I know a BA 747 first officer who's not! Losing BKK and SIN-SYD in the same year!

[MAN Flyer]

It was one of the key hubs for QF/BA JSA itineraries after SIN and maybe HKG. When BA flew to SYD via BKK (and QF the same in reverse), there was a fair amount of wing tip flying between QF and BA as the schedule was optimised for connections and to make sense for pax traveling between LHR and SYD.

What connections though ?. I know they both currently terminate their respective flights at BKK now, but that's only been happening for short time hasn't it ?. Before they both terminated at BKK I never heard people discuss flying BA to BKK to connect on to QF. Maybe that's just me as I didn't used to spend much time hanging around with those smelly OW fliers to be honest.

Of course the lower yield premiums to BKK would have hastened the downgrade but I'd also suggest that the JSA was a factor in keeping BKK going as a 4 class route for so long.

Yep, I would agree with this. And if the JSA was still in place maybe it would have stayed four class. But BKK is a notoriously crap yield destination, not helped by all the sand pit lot who have swamped the place. You seem to see as many EK/EY/QR birds there at TG these days...

[KeithMEL]

What connections though ?. I know they both currently terminate their respective flights at BKK now, but that's only been happening for short time hasn't it ?. Before they both terminated at BKK I never heard people discuss flying BA to BKK to connect on to QF. Maybe that's just me as I didn't used to spend much time hanging around with those smelly OW fliers to be honest.

I don't think people (outside of a frequent flyer forum and wanting to maximise TPs/SCs) purposefully booked an interline connection and agree that SIN was far more of a hub with connections to MEL/BNE/PER/ADL. But the entire JSA was set up to be very metal neutral as in all similar strategic alliances like QF/EK or VA/EY - you could book any QF or BA operated flight marketed by either carrier so they would have picked up people booking a QF marketed BA flight through QF, and when there's no through availability on single flight number sectors, the interline connection via BKK was a very handy way to construct itineraries between the UK and AU. They'd also have picked up stopover traffic. Revenue to/via BKK or any other port within the scope of the alliance would also have been pooled. And at hubs like SIN and BKK (less so at HKG or NRT I think as I recall the connecting times weren't that optimal), the 2 airlines did appear to make an effort to enable seamless interline connections under 2 hours. All fares were actually filed with valid transits/connections via most points in Asia - SIN, BKK, NRT, HKG amongst others though the really practical connections were at SIN or BKK, and HKG to a lesser extent. And BKK would be most heavily impacted by JSA termination compared to somewhere like HKG with strong O&D traffic due to the lower yields.

[MAN Flyer]

I agree with all that mate, but I still seriously doubt many BA pax used BKK as a hub.

[KeithMEL]

There wouldnt have been massive amounts of people hubbing at BKK. Can't blame them. The only way I'd want to transit at BKK is with TG First ground service! Very impressive, almost gives the LH F transfer experience a run for its money. But losing the ability to sell the LHR-SYD market via BKK (and therefore losing a lever for optimising inventory on the BKK service - eg opening up seats in particular classes just on the BKK flight to shift people on to BKK and beyond to QF to boost loads on BKK without sacrificing yields to/via SIN) would have weighed into the decision to restructure the BKK flight - especially as the downgauge is accompanied by a significant retiming rather than just a regular equipment downgauge. Similar to what QF has been doing to its flights to Asia as part of the unwinding of the JSA.

[Lobster]

What connections though ?. I know they both currently terminate their respective flights at BKK now, but that's only been happening for short time hasn't it ?. Before they both terminated at BKK I never heard people discuss flying BA to BKK to connect on to QF. Maybe that's just me as I didn't used to spend much time hanging around with those smelly OW fliers to be honest.

I did that many years ago. I flew LHR-BKK on BA and then BKK-MEL on QF. But i was stopping off at BKK for a couple of days. I can't remember if I had the option of flying BA to MEL or whether it was only a QF flight available.

[HUGE AL]

While I know and respect most of the participants in this thread, it's waaaaay too technical for me.